Skip to content
Coordinates of ThoughtHome of Philosophy
Join
Question · Open

Wang Yangming stared at bamboo for seven days and fell ill. Was he refuting empiricism?

I teach ethics at a secondary school in Seoul, and the story my students remember best from the whole Neo-Confucian unit is the bamboo.

As a young man, Wang Yangming tried to put Zhu Xi's teaching into practice. Zhu Xi said that we extend our knowledge by "investigating things", because principle (li) is present in all things. So Wang and a friend sat in front of the bamboo in the courtyard and tried to investigate its principle. The friend fell ill after three days. Wang lasted seven, and then he fell ill too. Years later, in exile, he concluded that principle is not to be sought outside: the mind itself is principle.

My students laugh at the story, and then one always asks: "So was Wang a rationalist and Zhu Xi an empiricist?" It's a tempting mapping. Zhu Xi looks outward, towards things and books; Wang looks inward, towards innate moral knowing. That sounds a lot like Locke's experience versus Descartes' reason.

Toegye, whose face is on our 1,000-won note, followed Zhu Xi and argued at length about how principle and the mind relate, so for my students this is not ancient Chinese history but part of their own tradition.

I'd like competing answers. Does the Zhu–Wang dispute map onto the rationalism–empiricism dispute? If not, what is the difference, and is there anything in either debate that would help the other?

LikeAnswerFollow5 answers

Join the conversation: members reply here, and joining is free. Reading is always free.

Join free to reply Sign in

5 answers

  1. Lin Pei-shan

    Fellow

    I'd say no, and the bamboo is partly why. Zhu Xi was not an empiricist in Locke's sense. For him principle is in things and in the mind, and "investigating things" mostly meant studying the classics and reflecting on human affairs until the principle shared by mind and world becomes clear. Staring at bamboo was arguably the young Wang's misreading of Zhu Xi, not a test of him. I tell my students in Taipei that the story refutes a caricature, which is how most famous refutations work.

    1. Ji-woo Ryu

      Fellow

      Pei-shan, "refutes a caricature" is going into my lesson plan. And Kenneth, your point explains why my students find the European debate so dry by comparison: nobody in it is expected to become better by winning it.

      Helpful · 3
  2. Henrike Vogel

    Fellow

    From a Kantian angle: the knowledge both men cared about was moral, and Kant thought moral knowledge comes from reason, not experience, without being a matter of Cartesian intellectual seeing. On that axis Wang is closer to Kant than to Descartes: the moral law, or innate knowing, is not discovered in the world but is the mind's own. Zhu Xi is closer to the view that reason must be cultivated through study before it can recognise what it already contains. Neither is Locke.

    Helpful · 1
  3. Kenneth Lam Chi-ho

    Fellow

    I'd add a warning about the word "knowledge" itself. The rationalism–empiricism debate is mostly about knowledge that: propositions, truths. Knowing principle, for both Neo-Confucians, involves responding rightly; Wang even says that knowing and acting are one. If you translate that into the European debate you lose exactly the feature that made it matter to them.

    Helpful · 2
  4. Hetal Shah

    Fellow

    Late, but from a Jain angle: anekāntavāda would say each side has grasped one aspect of a many-sided truth. Zhu Xi is right that principle shows itself in things and texts; Wang is right that without the mind's own knowing nothing would show itself at all. The bamboo story is what happens when you take one side as the whole.