Skip to content
Coordinates of ThoughtHome of Philosophy
Join
Question · Explain Newcomer-friendly

A random string and a sonnet can carry the same information? Then what is Shannon measuring?

Yesterday's lecture was about information, and the lecturer said something that has been bothering me through two full shifts: in Claude Shannon's theory, a random string of letters and a sonnet of the same length can carry the same amount of information.

How can that be? The sonnet means something. The random string means nothing. If information is not about meaning, then what is it about? And why does everyone use the word "information" as if it were about meaning, if the man who made the theory did not?

I understood maybe a third of the lecture, so please explain as if to someone who left school at seventeen but is not stupid.

LikeAnswerFollow4 answers

Join the conversation: members reply here, and joining is free. Reading is always free.

Join free to reply Sign in

4 answers

Accepted answer

  1. Vikram Sethi

    ✓ Accepted answer Fellow

    Serkan, think of it as a measure of surprise, not of meaning.

    Suppose I tell you the result of a coin toss. There were two equally likely possibilities; "heads" removes that uncertainty. Shannon calls that one bit. The result of a die roll removes more uncertainty, since there were six possibilities, so it carries more bits. The amount depends only on how many possibilities there were and how likely each was, never on what the message is about.

    Now the sonnet. If you treat both strings as sequences of letters where any letter could come next with equal chance, they are equally improbable, so they carry the same information. Interestingly, if you use a model of English, the sonnet is more predictable (after "q" comes "u", and so on), so it carries less Shannon information than the random string. Either way, meaning never enters the calculation.

    Shannon was clear that this was deliberate. Early in his 1948 paper he says that the semantic aspects of communication "are irrelevant to the engineering problem". His problem was how to send messages reliably down a wire. For that, you don't need to know what they mean, any more than the post office needs to read your letters.

    The confusion came later, when the technical word was borrowed as if it carried the everyday sense.

    Helpful · 2
    1. Serkan Aydoğdu

      Fellow

      Vikram, the post office comparison is what I needed. So the size of the envelope, not the letter. And a love letter and a tax demand can weigh the same.

      Helpful · 3

Other answers

  1. Wanjiru Njenga

    Fellow

    Exactly, and the size can even be bigger for nonsense. I compress data at work all day: files full of repetition shrink a lot, random noise hardly shrinks at all. Noise is "information-rich" in Shannon's sense, which tells you how far that sense is from ours.

  2. Mona Fathy

    Fellow

    I catalogue manuscripts, so I live on the other side of this. Two copies of a text can differ by a single letter and that letter can change a whole theological argument. In Shannon's terms the difference is tiny. In ours it is everything. That's not a flaw in his theory. It is a reminder that "how much" and "what it means" are different questions, and that the second needs readers, contexts and traditions.

    Helpful · 1